Comments on Chris Hamer-Hodges: The Continuance of the Apostles

The Church will not be the Church He died for unti...

2007-12-14T22:33:00.000Z

The Church will not be the Church He died for until the Body functions wholly and complete. Without the acceptance or gift of the apostle and prophet the Body is deformed and will not be Who it should be. The Church needs sound doctrine. I believe the churches in other countries like China for instance are undergoing persecution because of the Word and not the Church. There is a difference. One persecution is global and the other is not. In spite of all of this the Church will be the Church. It is inevitable in Him.

I agree fully with the present day ministry of apo...

2006-07-18T12:59:00.000+01:00

I agree fully with the present day ministry of apostles. Far to often the emphasis is on the apostle and we forget they worked in concert with other ascension gifts, not to build churches or establsih coverings over other Christians but for the purpose of preparing the Bride, not just raising up a few leaders, but equipping ALL the saints, until we all grow up into the Head. That hasn't happened yt, SO we still need ALL theascension gifts working together to accomplish the purpose of God.

Chris - your drawing out of Eph 4 the point that P...

2006-07-14T10:25:00.000+01:00

Chris - your drawing out of Eph 4 the point that Paul talks of apostle as a gift of the ascended Christ clearly shows that the 12 apostles of the Lamb could not be the only apostles as their call was prior to the ascension.

So the NT ifself suggest 2 orders of apostles, those who were eyewitnesses to his earthly ministry and resurrection (the Apostles of the Lamb) and those appointed by the asended Christ.

I also fully support the idea of unrecognised apostles in the church - particularly as we look through history to periods of great advance of the church where the office of apostle was not recognised or even looked for.

I also like what Mark says, particularly: "I suspe...

2006-07-13T22:36:00.000+01:00

I also like what Mark says, particularly: "I suspect there are many people operating in the apostolic gifting who do not carry the title." Which is undoubtedly true.

First, because, as Carl points out, all who are sent by Christ are "apostles" in the same way that all who share the good news are "evangelists". Part of the function of the ascension-ministry Apostle is to make us more apostolic in this way - so that we represent Christ to the world.

Secondly, a man is either an Apostle or not by virtue of the measure of the gift of Christ that he carries to the church, not by the badge he wares. Mark also made this point clear.

Calling someone an Apostle does not make him so, but equally not recognising an Apostle for what he is does not cause him to cease to be what Christ has made him. I believe there have been many such men throughout church history.

It's not a question of sin, but of revelation (of which none of us have a full measure). It goes beyond just using the right names, or ticking the right box in your spotters guide to ministries. There is a blessing to be had when those who not only have a gift to the church, but are such a gift, are recognised and received for what they are.

"The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward"

Yet again Chris you have posted a challenging and ...

2006-07-13T22:10:00.000+01:00

Yet again Chris you have posted a challenging and throught provoking blog, especially to those of us who believe that the Apostolic office ceased with the death of John the Apostle, for it's qualification was that the holder should be a witness of the Lord's Resurrection, and Paul was a witness of that (1 cor 15; 3-8 )

However those of us still believe it's the Will of God that the office of the successor's of the Apostles, the Pastors, Elders and Teachers of God's flock should be filled by Holy Spirit chosen men (acts 20;28 )

Without getting into a long discussion on the subject of modern day Apostles I would be interested to know if you see us in any type of error or even sin if we reject these modern day Apostles ?

May I say I have appreciated Mark H comments and what Carl has said.
and I enjoy your blogs.

FWIW, I suggest that some misuse the term Apostle ...

2006-07-13T20:12:00.000+01:00

FWIW, I suggest that some misuse the term Apostle to mean uber-Pastor where they also misuse the term Pastor to mean Leader (one of one) or Elder (one of many). I suspect there are many people operating in the apostolic gifting who do not carry the title, just as there are many operating in the pastoral gifting who do not carry the title (and vice-versa).

IMHO, with respect to Ephesians 4 nouns, we would do well to de-emphasise title and instead restore a recognition, appreciation, and appropriate honouring of gifting - i.e. look to the fruit, and celebrate the strengthening of the church. For example, Paul seems to refer to himself as Apostle for the purpose of recognising his God-appointed function. He chooses to step up to the plate with humility and a desire to serve, rather than seeking to establish a title or position.

I believe that all the gifts exist, operate, and remain necessary until Jesus returns. I believe that they all serve and strengthen the church, and they should be recognised as they visibly mature in individual servants. But I suspect that we have a cultural pre-occupation with badges, titles, and position, which is used by the enemy to deny us the blessing of gifts serving the church as God intended.

A challenge for you Chris: how about some articles helping us to further understand what the Bible says an apostle is (and is not). Help me to develop my understanding.

I think the assertion that there are no more apost...

2006-07-13T15:53:00.000+01:00

I think the assertion that there are no more apostles is in part based on misunderstand about who the original apostles were and what they did. Many claim that the Apostles wrote the NT. But most did not have any writing canonized and Luke did a lot of writing.

On another note, if an apostle is one sent by Jesus then we know there were at least 94 apostles. Luke 10:1 says He sent out 72 others. The apostles seem less exclusive and less special when viewed in these terms.

I think the error in current apostolic terminology is that the modern trend is to call what is biblically a bishop, an apostle.

I firmly believe that there are those who are gifted to function in apostolic ministry, and just like the first hundred or so apostles, a few will stand out from the rest by the design of God and the rest will live mostly anonymous lives.

They are not special, just gifted for a specific ministry.